somebody that smart when so much of the war on terror is prosecuted by the cia, to have someone from the pentagon with his background move over to the cia and head that was incredibly lucky for the country because there are few other people who could've made that change, survived moving from one tough bureaucracy to another and be such a great intellectual and forward-thinking person about how to protect the united states. >> the other part of this, obviously, is petraeus' legacy in afghanistan, and being the author of the book on counterinsurgency in a literal sense, to what extent was the implications of that doctrine of the policy decisions that he was part of running up to this are going to be ultimately much, much more important going forward than any -- i think than to go to john's point, who knows what this is. but right now, we should also be having a pretty healthy debate about when we switched from counterterror to counterinsurgency over there. >> yeah. >>> still ahead, newt gingrich also chair of the dnc debbie wasserman schultz, more "morning joe" in a moment. [ male announcer ] human